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Hypnosis in MPD: Ritual Abuse
Posted In: Meditation And Spirituality  3/26/05
By: keeleynet

THE GREENBAUM SPEECH

Herein is the lecture by D.C.Hammond, originally entitled

"Hypnosis in MPD: Ritual Abuse,"

but now usually known as the "Greenbaum Speech," delivered at the Fourth

Annual Eastern Regional Conference on Abuse and Multiple Personality, Thursday

June 25, 1992, at the Radisson Plaza Hotel, Mark Center, Alexandria, Virginia.

Sponsored by the Center for Abuse Recovery & Empowerment, The Psychiatric

Institute of Washington, D.C. Both a tape and a transcript were at one time

available from Audio Transcripts of Alexandria, Virginia (800-338-2111).

Tapes and transcripts of other sessions from the conference are still being

sold but -- understandably -- not this one. The transcript below was made from

a privately made tape of the original lecture.

The single most remarkable thing about this speech is how little one has heard

of it in the two years since its original delivery. It is recommended that one

reads far enough at least until one finds why it's called "the Greenbaum

speech."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the introduction the following background information is given for

D. Corydon Hammond:

B.S. M.S. Ph.D (Counseling Psychology) from the University of Utah

Diplomate in Clinical Hypnosis, the American Board of Psychological Hypnosis

Diplomate in Sex Therapy, the American Board of Sexology

Clinical Supervisor and Board Examiner, American Board of Sexology

Diplomate in Marital and Sex Therapy, American Board of Family Psychology

Licensed Psychologist, Licensed Marital Therapist, Licensed Family Therapist,

State of Utah

Research Associate Professor of Physical Medicine an Rehabilitation,

Utah School of Medicine

Director and Founder of the Sex and Marital Therapy Clinic,

University of Utah.

Adjunct Associate Professor of Educational Psychology, University of

Utah Abstract

Editor, The American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis

Advising Editor and Founding Member, Editorial Board, The Ericsonian

Monograph

Referee, The Journal of Abnormal Psychology

1989 Presidential Award of Merit, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis

1990 Urban Sector Award, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis

Current President, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis

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``THE GREENBAUM SPEECH of D.C. HAMMOND''

We've got a lot to cover today and let me give you a rough approximate outline

of the things that I'd like us to get into. First, let me ask how many of you

have had at least one course or workshop on hypnosis? Can I see the hands?

Wonderful. That makes our job easier. Okay.

I want to start off by talking a little about trance-training and the use of

hypnotic phenomena with an MPD dissociative-disorder population, to talk some

about unconscious exploration, methods of doing that, the use of imagery and

symbolic imagery techniques for managing physical symptoms, input overload,

things like that. Before the day's out, I want to spend some time talking

about something I think has been completely neglected in the field of

dissociative disorder, and that's talking about methods of profound calming

for automatic hyper-arousal that's been conditioned in these patients.

We're going to spend a considerable length of time talking about age-

regression and abreaction in working through a trauma. I'll show you with a

non-MPD patient -- some of that kind of work -- and then extrapolate from what

I find so similar and different with MPD cases. Part of that, I would add, by

the way, is that I've been very sensitive through the years about taping MPD

cases or ritual-abuse cases, part of it being that some of that feels a little

like using patients and I think that this population has been used enough.

That's part of the reason, by choice, that I don't generally videotape my

work.

I also want to talk a bunch about hypnotic relapse-prevention strategies and

post-integration therapy today. Finally, I hope to find somewhere in our time-

frame to spend on hour or so talking specifically about ritual abuse and about

mind-control programming and brainwashing -- how it's done, how to get on the

inside with that -- which is a topic that in the past I haven't been willing

to speak about publicly, have done that in small groups and in consultations,

but recently decided that it was high time that somebody started doing it. So

we're going to talk about specifics today. [Applause]

In Chicago at the first international congress where ritual abuse was talked

about I can remember thinking, "How strange and interesting." I can recall

many people listening to an example given that somebody thought was so

idiosyncratic and rare, and all the people coming up after saying, "Gee,

you're treating one, too? You're in Seattle"...Well, I'm in Toronto...Well,

I'm in Florida...Well, I'm in Cincinnati." I didn't know what to think at

that point. It wasn't too long after that I found my first ritual-abuse

patient in somebody I was already treating and we hadn't gotten that deep yet.

Things in that case made me very curious about the use of mind-control

techniques and hypnosis and other brainwashing techniques. So I started

studying brainwashing and some of the literature in that area and became

acquainted with, in fact, one of the people who'd written one of the better

books in that area.

Then I decided to do a survey, and from the ISSMP&D [International Society for

the Study of Multiple Personality and Dissociation] folks I picked out about a

dozen and a half therapists that I though were seeing more of that than

probably anyone else around and I started surveying them. The interview

protocol, that I had, got the same reaction almost without exception. Those

therapists said, "You're asking questions I don't know the answers to. You're

asking more specific questions than I've ever asked my patients." Many of

those same therapists said, "Let me ask those questions and I'll get back to

you with the answer." Many of them not only got back with answers, but said,

"You've got to talk to this patient or these two patients." I ended up doing

hundreds of dollars worth of telephone interviewing. What I got out of that

was a grasp of a variety of brainwashing methods being used all over the

country.

I started to hear some similarities. Whereas I hadn't known, to begin with,

how widespread things were, I was now getting a feeling that there were a lot

of people reporting some similar things and that there must be some degree of

communication here. Then approximately two and a half years ago I had some

material drop in my lap. My source was saying a lot of things that I knew were

accurate about some of the brainwashing, but it was telling me new material I

had no idea about.

At this point I took and decided to check it out in three ritual-abuse

patients I was seeing at the time. Two of the three had what they were

describing, in careful inquiry without leading or contaminating. The

fascinating thing was that as I did a telephone-consult with a therapist that

I'd been consulting for quite a number of months on an MPD case in another

state, I told her to inquire about certain things. She said, "Well, what are

those things?" I said, "I'm not going to tell you, because I don't want there

to be any possibility of contamination. Just come back to me and tell me what

the patient says."

She called me back two hours later, said, "I just had a double session with

this patient and there was a part of him that said, 'Oh, we're so excited. If

you know about this stuff, you know how the Cult Programmers get on the inside

and our therapy is going to go so much faster.'" Many other patients since

have had a reaction of wanting to pee their pants out of anxiety and fear

rather than thinking it was wonderful thing. But the interesting thing was

that she then asked, "What are these things?"

They were word perfect -- same answers my source had given me. I've since

repeated that in many parts of the country. I've consulted in eleven states

and one foreign country, in some cases over the telephone, in some cases in

person, in some cases giving the therapist information ahead of time and

saying, "Be very careful how you phrase this. Phrase it in these ways so you

don't contaminate."

In other cases not even giving the therapist information ahead of time so they

couldn't. When you start to find the same highly esoteric information in

different states and different countries, from Florida to California, you

start to get an idea that there's something going on that is very large, very

well coordinated, with a great deal of communication and sytematicness to

what's happening.

So I have gone from someone kind of neutral and not knowing what to think

about it all to someone who clearly believes ritual abuse is real and that the

people who say it isn't are either naive like people who didn't want to

believe the Holocaust or -- they're dirty. [Applause]

Now for a long time I would tell a select group of therapists that I knew and

trusted, information and say, "Spread it out. Don't spread my name. Don't say

where it came from. But here's some information. Share it with other

therapists if you find it's on target, and I'd appreciate your feedback."

People would question -- in talks -- and say, you know, they were hungry for

information. Myself, as well as a few others that I've shared it with, were

hedging out of concern and out of personal threats and out of death threats. I

finally decided to hell with them.

If they're going to kill me, they're going to kill me. It's time to share more

information with therapists. Part of that comes because we proceeded so

cautiously and slowly, checking things in many different locations and find

the same thing. So I'm going to give you the way in with ritual-abuse

programming. I certainly can't tell you everything that you want to know in

forty-five or fifty minutes, but I'm going to give you the essentials to get

inside and start working at a new level.

I don't know what proportion, honestly, of patients have this. I would guess

that maybe somewhere around at least fifty percent, maybe as high as three-

quarters, I would guess maybe two-thirds of your ritual-abuse patients may

have this. What do I think the distinguishing characteristic is?

If they were raised from birth in a mainstream cult or if they were an non-

bloodline person, meaning neither parent was in the Cult, but Cult people had

a lot of access to them in early childhood, they may also have it. I have seen

more than one ritual-abuse patient who clearly had all the kind of ritual

things you hear about. They seemed very genuine. They talked about all the

typical things that you hear in this population, but had none of this

programming with prolonged extensive checking.

So I believe in one case I was personally treating that she was a kind of

schismatic break-off that had kind of gone off and done their own thing and

were no longer hooked into a mainstream group. [Pause]

Here's where it appears to have come from. At the end of World War II, before

it even ended, Allen Dulles and people from our Intelligence Community were

already in Switzerland making contact to get out Nazi scientists. As World

War II ends, they not only get out rocket scientists, but they also get out

some Nazi doctors who have been doing mind-control research in the camps.

They brought them to the United States. Along with them was a young boy, a

teenager, who had been raised in a Hasidic Jewish tradition and a background

of Cabalistic mysticism that probably appealed to people in the Cult because

at least by the turn of the century Aleister Crowley had been introducing

Cabalism into Satanic stuff, if not earlier. I suspect it may have formed some

bond between them. But he saved his skin by collaborating and being an

assistant to them in the death-camp experiments. They brought him with them.

They started doing mind-control research for Military Intelligence in military

hospitals in the United States. The people that came, the Nazi doctors, were

Satanists. Subsequently, the boy changed his name, Americanized it some,

obtained an M.D. degree, became a physician and continued this work that

appears to be at the center of Cult Programming today. His name is known to

patients throughout the country. [Pause]

What they basically do is they will get a child and they will start this, in

basic forms, it appears, by about two and a half after the child's already

been made dissociative. They'll make him dissociative not only through abuse,

like sexual abuse, but also things like putting a mousetrap on their fingers

and teaching the parents, "You do not go in until the child stops crying. Only

then do you go in and remove it."

They start in rudimentary forms at about two and a half and kick into high

gear, it appears, around six or six and a half, continue through adolescence

with periodic reinforcements in adulthood. Basically in the programming the

child will be put typically on a gurney. They will have an IV in one hand or

arm. They'll be strapped down, typically naked. There'll be wires attached to

their head to monitor electroencephalograph patterns. They will see a pulsing

light, most often described as red, occasionally white or blue. They'll be

given, most commonly I believe, Demerol. Sometimes it'll be other drugs as

well depending on the kind of programming.

They have it, I think, down to a science where they've learned you give so

much every twenty-five minutes until the programming is done. They then will

describe a pain on one ear, their right ear generally, where it appears a

needle has been placed, and they will hear weird, disorienting sounds in that

ear while they see photic stimulation to drive the brain into a brainwave

pattern with a pulsing light at a certain frequency not unlike the goggles

that are now available through Sharper Image and some of those kinds of

stores.

Then, after a suitable period when they're in a certain brainwave state, they

will begin programming, programming oriented to self-destruction and

debasement of the person. In a patient at this point in time about eight years

old who has gone through a great deal early programming took place on a

military installation. That's not uncommon. I've treated and been involved

with cases who are part of this original mind-control project as well as

having their programming on military reservations in many cases.

We find a lot of connections with the CIA. This patient now was in a Cult

school, a private Cult school where several of these sessions occurred a week.

She would go into a room, get all hooked up. They would do all of these sorts

of things. When she was in the proper altered state, now they were no longer

having to monitor it with electroencephalographs, she also had already had

placed on her electrodes, one in the vagina, for example, four on the head.

Sometimes they'll be on other parts of the body. They will then begin and they

would say to her, "You are angry with someone in the group." She'd say, "No,

I'm not" and they'd violently shock her. They would say the same thing until

she complied and didn't make any negative response. Then they would continue.

"And because you are angry with someone in the group," or "When you are angry

with someone in the group, you will hurt yourself. Do you understand?" She

said, "No" and they shocked her. They repeated again, "Do you understand?"

"Well, yes, but I don't want to." Shock her again until they get compliance.

Then they keep adding to it. "And you will hurt yourself by cutting yourself.

Do you understand?" Maybe she'd say yes, but they might say, "We don't believe

you" and shock her anyway. "Go back and go over it again." They would continue

in this sort of fashion. She said typically it seemed as though they'd go

about thirty minutes, take a break for a smoke or something, come back. They

may review what they'd done and stopped or they might review what they'd done

and go on to new material.

She said the sessions might go half an hour, they might go three hours. She

estimated three times a week. Programming under the influence of drugs in a

certain brainwave state and with these noises in one ear and them speaking in

the other ear, usually the left ear, associated with right hemisphere non-

dominant brain functioning, and with them talking, therefore, and requiring

intense concentration, intense focusing. Because often they'll have to

memorize and say certain things back, word-perfect, to avoid punishment,

shock, and other kinds of things that are occurring.

This is basically how a lot of programming goes on. Some of it'll also use

other typical brainwashing kinds of techniques. There will be very

standardized types of hypnotic things done at times. There'll be sensory

deprivation which we know increases suggestibility in anyone. Total sensory

deprivation, suggestibility has significantly increased, from the research.

It's not uncommon for them to use a great deal of that, including formal

sensory-deprivation chambers before they do certain of these things. [Pause]

Now let me give you, because we don't have a lot of time, as much practical

information as I can. The way that I would inquire as to whether or not some

of this might be there would be with ideomotor finger-signals.

After you've set them up I would say, "I want the central inner core of you to

take control of the finger-signals." Don't ask the unconscious mind. The case

where you're inquiring about ritual abuse, that's for the central inner core.

The core is a Cult-created part. "And I want that central inner core of you to

take control of this hand of these finger-signals and what it has for the yes-

finger to float up. I want to ask the inner core of you is there any part of

you, any part of Mary," that's the host's name, "who knows anything about

Alpha, Beta, Delta, or Theta."

If you get a Yes, it should raise a red flag that you might have someone with

formal intensive brainwashing and programming in place. I would then ask and

say, "I want a part inside who knows something about Alpha, Beta, Delta, and

Theta to come up to a level where you can speak to me and when you're here

say, 'I'm here.'" I would not ask if a part was willing to. No one's going to

particularly want to talk about this. I would just say, "I want some part who

can tell me about this to come out."

Without leading them ask them what these things are. I've had consults where

I've come in. Sometimes I've gotten a Yes to that, but as I've done

exploration it appeared to be some kind of compliance response or somebody

wanting, in two or three cases, to appear maybe that they were ritual abuse

and maybe they were in some way, but with careful inquiry and looking it was

obvious that they did not have what we were looking for. Let me tell you what

these are.

Let's suppose that this whole front row here are multiples and that she has an

alter named Helen and she has one named Mary, she has one named Gertrude, she

has one named Elizabeth, and she has one named Monica. Every one of those

alters may have put on it a program, perhaps designated alpha-zero-zero-nine a

Cult person could say, "Alpha-zero-zero-nine" or make some kind of hand

gesture to indicate this and get the same part out in any one of them even

though they had different names that they may be known by to you.

Alphas appear to represent general programming, the first kind of things put

in. Betas appear to be sexual programs. For example, how to perform oral sex

in a certain way, how to perform sex in rituals, having to do with producing

child pornography, directing child pornography, prostitution.

Deltas are killers trained in how to kill in ceremonies. There'll also be

some self-harm stuff mixed in with that, assassination and killing. Thetas are

called psychic killers. You know, I had never in my life heard those two terms

paired together. I'd never heard the words "psychic killers" put together,

but when you have people in different states, including therapists inquiring

and asking, "What is Theta," and patients say to them, "Psychic killers," it

tends to make one a believer that certain things are very systematic and very

widespread. This comes from their belief in psychic sorts of abilities and

powers, including their ability to psychically communicate with "mother'"

including their ability to psychically cause somebody to develop a brain

aneurysm and die. It also is a more future-oriented kind of programming.

Then there's Omega. I usually don't include that word when I say my first

question about this or any part inside that knows about Alpha, Beta, Delta,

Theta because Omega will shake them even more. Omega has to do with self-

destruct programming. Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. This can

include self-mutilation as well as killing-themselves programming. Gamma

appears to be system-protection and deception programming which will provide

misinformation to you, try to misdirect you, tell you half-truths, protect

different things inside. There can also be other Greek letters.

I'd recommend that you go and get your entire Greek alphabet and if you have

verified that some of this stuff is present and they have given you some of

the right answers about what some of this material is, and I can't underline

enough: DO NOT LEAD THEM. Do not say, "Is this killers?" Get the answer from

them, please.

When you've done this and it appears to be present, I would take your entire

Greek alphabet and, with ideomotor signals, go through the alphabet and say,

"Is there any programming inside associated with epsilon, omicron," and go on

through. There may be some sytematicness to some of the other letter, but I'm

not aware of it.

I've found, for example, in one case that Zeta had to do with the production

of snuff films that this person was involved with. With another person,

Omicron had to do with their linkage and associations with drug smuggling and

with the Mafia and with big business and government leaders. So there's going

to be some individualism, I think, in some of those. Some of those are come-

home programs, "come back to the Cult", "return to the Cult" program.

Here's the flaw in the system. They have built in shut-down and erasure codes

so if they got into trouble they could shut something down and they could also

erase something. These codes will sometimes be idiosyncratic phrases, or

ditties. Sometimes they will be numbers maybe followed by a word. There's

some real individuality to that. At first I had hoped if we can get some of

these maybe they'll work with different people. No such luck. It's very

unlikely unless they were programmed at about the same point in time as part

of the same little group.

Stuff that I've seen suggests that they carry laptop computers, the

programmers, which still include everything that they did twenty, thirty years

ago in them in terms of the names of alters, the programs, the codes, and so

on. Now what you can do is get erasure codes, and I always ask, "If I say this

code, what will happen?' Doublecheck. "Is there any part inside who has

different information?" Watch your ideomotor signals and what I've found is

you can erase programs by giving the appropriate codes, but then you must

abreact the feelings.

So if you erase Omega, which is often where I've started because it's the most

high risk. Afterwards I will get all the Omega, what were formerly Omega

alters, together so that we will abreact and give back to the host the

memories associated with all the programming that was done with Omega and

anything any Omega part ever had to do in a fractionated abreaction. They use

the metaphor -- and it is their metaphor -- of robots. And it is like a robot

shell comes down over the child alter to make them act in robotic fashion.

Once in a while internally you'll confront robots. What I found from earlier

work, and so I speed the process up now because I confirmed it enough times,

is that you can say to the core, "Core, I want you to look -- there's this

robot blocking the way in some way, blocking the progress. Go around and look

at the back of the head and tell me what you notice on the back of the head or

the neck." I just ask it very non-leading like that and what's commonly said

to me is that there were wires or a switch. So I'll tell them, "Hold the wires

or flip the switch and it will immobilize the robot and give me a yes-signal

when you've done it." Pretty soon you get a yes-signal. "Great. Now that the

robot is immobilized, I want you to look inside the robot and tell me what you

see."

It's generally one or several children. I have them remove the children. I do

a little hypnotic magic and ask the core to use a laser and vaporize the robot

so nothing is left. They're usually quite amazed that this works, as have been

a number of therapists. [Pause]

Now there are many different layers of this stuff is the problem. Let me come

over to the overhead and give some ideas about them. What we have up here are

innumerable alters. I'll tell you one of the fascinating things I've seen. I

remember a little over a year ago coming in to see some cases, some of the

tough cases at a dissociative-disorders unit of a couple of the finest of the

MPD therapists in this country, who are always part of all the international

meetings, have lectured internationally.

We worked and I look at some of their patients. They were amazed at certain

things because they had not been aware of this before. As we worked with some

of the patients and confirmed it, I remember one woman who'd been inpatient

for three years, still was inpatient. Another who had one intensive year of

inpatient work with all the finest MPD therapy you can imagine -- abreactions,

integrations, facilitating cooperation, art therapy, on and on and on,

journaling, intensively for one inpatient year followed by an intensive year

of outpatient therapy two, three hours a week.

In both patients we found out that all of this great work had done nothing but

deal with the alters up here and had not touched the mind-control programming.

In fact it was not only intact, but we found that the one who was outpatient

was having her therapy monitored every session by her mother, out-of-state,

over the telephone, and that she still had intact suggestions that had been

give to her at a certain future time to kill her therapist. Now one of the

things that I would very carefully check is, I would suggest that you ask the

core, not just the unconscious mind, ask the core, "Is there any part inside

that continues to have contact with people associated with the Cult? Is there

any part inside who goes to Cult rituals or meetings? Is there a recording

device inside of Mary," if that's the host's name, "a recording device inside

so that someone can find out the things that are said in sessions?"

This doesn't mean they're monitored. Many of them just simply have it. "Is

there someone who debriefs some part inside for what happens in our therapy

sessions?" I have the very uncomfortable feeling from some past experience

that when you look at this you will find the large proportion of ritual-abuse

victims in this country are having their ongoing therapy monitored.

I remember a woman who came in about twenty-four years old, claimed her father

was a Satanist. Her parents divorced when she was six. After that it would

only when her father had visitation and he would take her to rituals sometimes

up until age fifteen. She said, "I haven't gone to anything since I was

fifteen." Her therapist believed this at face value. We sat in my office. We

did a two-hour inquiry using hypnosis. We found the programming present.

In addition to that we found that every therapy session was debriefed and in

fact they had told her to get sick and not come to the appointment with me.

Another one had been told that I was Cult and that if she came I would know

that she'd been told not to come and I would punish her. If anything

meaningful comes out in a patient who's being monitored like that -- from what

I've learned thus far, they're tortured with electric shocks -- my belief is

if they're in that situation you can't do meaningful therapy other than being

supportive and caring and letting them know you care a lot and you'll be there

to support them. But I wouldn't try to work with any kind of deep material or

deprogramming with them because I think it can do nothing but get them

tortured and hurt unless they can get into a safe, secure inpatient unit for

an extended period of time to do some of the work required.

I have a feeling that when you make inquiries you're going to find that

probably greater than fifty percent of these patients, if they're bloodline,

meaning mother or dad or both involved, will be monitored on some ongoing

basis. [Pause]

Now when you come below the alters, you then have Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta,

so and so forth, the Greek-letter programming and they will then have backup

programs. There will typically be an erasure code for the backups. There may

be one code that combines all the backups into one and then an erasure code

for them, simply one code that erases all the backups. So I will get the code

for, let's say, Omega and for all the Omega backups at the same time. After

I've asked "What will happen if I give this," I will give the code and then I

will say, "What are you experiencing?" They often describe computer whirring,

things erasing, explosions inside, all sorts of interesting things.

I've had some therapists come back and say, "My Lord, I had never said

anything about robots and she said something about robots vaporizing." I

remember one therapist who'd been with me in several hypnosis workshops and

consulted with me about a crisis MPD situation. I told her to inquire about

Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta. She did. She got back to me saying, "Yeah, I got an

indication it's there. What is it?" I said, "I'm not going to tell you. Go

back and inquire about some of this."

We set an appointment for a week or so hence. She got back with me and said,

"I asked what Theta was and she said, 'psychic killers.' I asked her what

Delta was and she said 'killers.'" Okay. So I told her about some of this

stuff for a two-hour consult. She called back and she said, "This seemed too

fantastic. I heard this and I thought, 'Has Cory been working too hard?'" she

said, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but she said, "I held you in high

professional regard, but this just sounded so off in the twilight zone that I

really thought, 'Is he having a nervous breakdown or something?'"

She said, "But I respected you enough to ask about this." She said, "I asked

another MPD patient and she didn't have any of this." So in this patient she

started describing things and how she worked, for example, with an erasure and

she was describing things like robots vaporizing and kinds of things. She

said, "I hadn't told her about any of these things." Well, here's the problem.

There are different layers and I think some of them are designed to keep us

going in circles forever. They figured we probably, in most cases, wouldn't

get below the alters which they purposefully created.

The way you create Manchurian Candidates is you divide the mind. It's part of

what the Intelligence Community wanted to look at. If you're going to get an

assassin, you're going to get somebody to go do something, YOU DIVIDE THE

MIND.

It fascinates me about cases like the assassination of Robert Kennedy, where

Bernard Diamond, on examining Sirhan Sirhan found that he had total amnesia of

the killing of Robert Kennedy, but under hypnosis could remember it. But

despite suggestions he would be able to consciously remember, could not

remember a thing after was out of hypnosis. I'd love to examine Sirhan Sirhan.

It appears that below this we've got some other layers. One is called "Green

Programming" it appears. Isn't it interesting that the doctor's name is Dr.

Green? One of the questions in a way that does not contaminate is after I've

identified some of this stuff is there and they've given me a few right

answers about what some of it is, "If there were a doctor associated with this

programming and his name were a color, you know, like Dr. Chartreuse or

something, if his name were a color, what color would the color be?"

Now once in a while I've had some other colors mentioned in about three or

four patients that I felt were trying to dissimulate in some way and I don't

really believe had this. In one case I got another color and I found out later

it was a doctor whose name was a color who was being trained by Dr. Green

almost thirty years ago and he supervised part of the programming of this

woman under this doctor.

I remember one woman couldn't come up with anything. No alter would speak up

with anything. I said, "Okay," and we went on to some other material. About

two minutes later she said, "Green. Do you mean Dr. Green?" We found this all

over. There appears to be some Green Programming below that and I suspect that

you get down to fewer and more central programs the deeper you go.

Well, all Green Programming is Ultra-Green and the Green Tree. Cabalistic

mysticism is mixed all into this. If you're going to work with this you need

to pick up a couple of books on the Cabala. One is by a man named Dion Fortune

called "Qabala" with a "q," Dion Fortune. Another is by Ann Williams-Heller

and it's called "The Kabbalah."

I knew nothing about the Cabala. It was interesting. A patient had sat in my

waiting area, got there considerably early and drew a detailed multicolored

Cabalistic Tree over two years ago. It took me two months to figure out what

it was. Finally, showing it to somebody else who said, "You know? That looks

an awful lot like the Cabala Tree" and that rang a bell with some esoteric in

an old book and I dug it out. That was the background of Dr. Green.

Now the interesting thing about the Green Tree is his original name was

Greenbaum. What does "greenbaum" mean in German? Green Tree, Ultra-Tree and

the Green Tree. I've also had patients who didn't appear to know that his

original name was Greenbaum, volunteered that there were parts inside named

Mr. Greenbaum. Now let me give you some information about parts inside that

may be helpful to you if you're going to inquire about these things, because

my experience is one part will give you some information and either run dry or

get defensive or scared and stop. And so you punt and you make an end run and

you come around the other direction, you find another part.

I'll tell you several parts to ask for and ask if there's a part by this name.

And, by the way, when I'm screening patients and fiddling around with this, I

throw in a bunch of spurious ones and ask, "Is there a part inside by this

name and by that name" as a check on whether or not it appears genuine. For

example. "In addition to the core," I ask, "is there a part inside named

Wisdom?" Wisdom is a part of the Cabalistic Tree.

Wisdom, I've often found, will be helpful and give you a lot of information.

"Is there a part inside named Diana?" I mean I may throw in all sorts of

things. "Is there a part inside named Zelda?" I've never encountered one yet!

Just to see what kind of answers we get. I try to do this carefully. Diana is

a part that, in the Cabalistic system, is associated with a part called the

Foundation. You will be fascinated to know that.

Remember the Process Church? Roman Polanski's wife, Sharon Tate, was killed

by the Manson Family who were associated with the Process Church? A lot of

prominent people in Hollywood were associated and then they went underground,

the books say, in about seventy-eight and vanished?

Well, they're alive and well in southern Utah. We have a thick file in the

Utah Department of Public Safety documenting that they moved to southern Utah,

north of Monument Valley, bought a movie ranch in the desert, renovated it,

expanded it, built a bunch of buildings there, carefully monitored so that

very few people go out of there and no one can get in and changed their name.

A key word in their name is "Foundation." The Foundation. There are some

other words. The Foundation is part of the Tree. So you can ask, "Is there

something inside known as The Foundation?" I might ask other things to throw

people off. "Is there something known as the Sub-Basement?" Well, maybe

they'll conceive of something. Or "Is there something known as the Walls?"

There are a variety of questions you can come up with, to sort of screen some

things. I've also found that there will often be a part called "Black

Master," a part called "Master Programmer," and that there will be computer

operators inside. How many of you have come into computer things in patients?

There will typically be computer operators: Computer Operator Black, Computer

Operator Green, Computer Operator Purple.

Sometimes they'll have numbers instead, sometimes they'll be called Systems

Information Directors. You can find out the head one of those. There'll be a

source of some information for you. I will ask inside, "Is there a part inside

named Dr. Green?" You'll find that there are, if they have this kind of

programming, in my experience. Usually with a little work and reframing, you

can turn them and help them to realize that they were really a child-part

who's playing a role and they had no choice then, but they do now. You know,

they played their role very, very well, but they don't have to continue to

play it with you because they're safe here and in fact, "If the Cult simply

found out that you talked to me, that they you had shared information with me,

you tell me what would they do to you?"

Emphasize that the only way out is through me and that they need to cooperate

and share information and help me and that I'll help them. So all these parts

can give you various information. Now they have tried to protect this very

carefully. Let me give you an example with Ultra-Green. I discovered this --

by the way I used to think this programming was only in bloodline people. I've

discovered it in non-bloodline people, but it's a bit different. They don't

want it to be just the same. I don't think you'll find deep things like Ultra-

Green and probably not even Green Programming with non-bloodline people.

But let me tell you something that I discovered first in a non-bloodline and

then in a bloodline. We were going along and a patient was close to getting

well, approaching final integration in a non-bloodline and she suddenly

started hallucinating and her fingers were becoming hammers and other things

like that. So I used an affect-bridge and we went back and we found that what

happened was that they gave suggestions, that if she ever got well to a

certain point she would go crazy.

The way they did this was they strapped her down and they gave her LSD when

she was eight years old. When she began hallucinating they inquired about the

nature of the hallucinations so they could utilize them in good Ericsonian

fashion and build on them and then combine the drug-effect with powerful

suggestions. "If you ever get to this point you will go crazy. If you ever get

fully integrated and get well you will go crazy like this and will be locked

up in an institution for the rest of your life. They gave those suggestions

vigorously and repetitively. Finally they introduced other suggestions that,

"Rather than have this happen, it would be easier to just kill yourself."

In a bloodline patient then, as I began inquiring about deep material, the

patient started to experience similar symptoms. We went back and we found the

identical things were done to her.

This was called the "Green Bomb." B-O-M-B. Lots of interesting internal

consistencies like that play on words with Dr. Greenbaum, his original name.

Now in this case it was done to her at age nine for the first time and then

only hers was different. Hers was a suggestion for amnesia. "If you ever

remember anything about Ultra-Green and the Green Tree you will go crazy. You

will become a vegetable and be locked up forever." Then finally the

suggestions added, "And it'll be easier to just kill yourself than have that

happen to you, if you ever remember it." At age twelve then, three years

later, they used what sounds like an Amytol interview to try to breach the

amnesia and find out if they could. They couldn't.

So then they strapped her down again, took and gave her something to kind of

paralyze her body, gave her LSD, an even bigger dose and reinforced all the

suggestions. Did a similar thing at the age of sixteen. So these are some of

the kind of booby traps you run into. There are a number of cases where they

combined powerful drug effects like this with suggestions to keep us from

discovering some of this deeper level stuff.

What's the bottom? Your guess is as good as mine but I can tell you that I've

had a lot of therapists who were stymied with these cases who were going

nowhere. In fact someone here that I told some basic information about this to

in Ohio a couple of months ago said it opened all sorts of things up in a

patient who'd been going nowhere. That's an often common thing. I think that

we can move down to deeper levels and if we deal with some of the deeper level

stuff it may destroy all the stuff above it. But we don't even know that yet.

In some of the patients I'm working with we have pretty much dealt with a lot

of the top-level stuff. I'll tell you how we've done some of that. We'll take

and erase one system like Omega. Then we will have a huge abreaction of all

the memories and feelings in a fractionated abreaction associated with those

parts. I typically find I'll say to them, "Now that we've done this are there

any other memories and feelings that any parts that were Omega still have?"

The answer's usually "No." At that point I will say, "I usually find at this

point in time the majority, if not all, of those parts that used to be Omega

no longer feel a desire or need to be different, realizing that you split off

originally by them and want to go home to Mary and become one with her again."

I use the concept often now -- which came from a patient -- of going home and

becoming one with her. "Going back from whence you came" is another phrase

I'll use with them. "Are there any Omega parts inside who do not feel

comfortable with that or have reservations or concerns about that?" If there

are we talk to them. We deal with them. A few may not integrate.

My experience is most of the time they'll integrate and we may integrate

twenty-five parts at once in a polyfragmented complex MPD. I think it is

vitally important to abreact the feelings before you go on. Also for many

patients it hasn't seemed to matter the order we go in but I've found a couple

where it has. If it doesn't seem to matter I'll typically go Omega, then Delta

because they have more violence potential, then Gamma to get rid of the self-

deception stuff.

What I will do before I just assume anything and do that, is once we've done

Omega and showed them that success can occur and something can happen and they

feel relief after, I will say to them, "I want to ask the core -- through the

fingers -- is there a specific order in which programs must be erased?" You

know maybe it doesn't matter but most of the time I found "No." There are

cases where we found "Yes."

I recommend doing one or two or three of those because they'll produce relief

and a sense of optimism in the patient. But then I would recommend starting

to probe for the deeper level things and getting their input and

recommendations about the order in which we go. Question?

Q: What has been the typical age and typical gender of this type of

person?

Dr.H: I know of this being found in men and women. Most of the patients I know

with MPD ritual abuse that are being treated are women, however. I know

of some men being treated where we've found this. A while back I was

talking to a small group of therapists somewhere. I told them about some

of this. In the middle of talking about some of this all the color

drained out of one social worker's face and she obviously had a reaction

and I asked her about and she said, "I'm working with a five-year-old

boy," and she said, "Just in the last few weeks he was saying something

about a Dr. Green." I went on a little further and I mentioned some of

these things and she just shook her head again. I said, "What's going

on?" She said, "He's been spontaneously telling me about robots and

about Omega." I think you will find variations of this and that they've

changed it, probably every few years and maybe somewhat regionally to

throw us off in various ways but that certain basics and fundamentals

will probably be there. I have seen this in people up into their forties

including people whose parents were very, very high in the CIA, other

sorts of things like that. I've had some that were originally part of

the Monarch Project which is the name of the government Intelligence

project. Question in the back?

Q: I'm still not grasping how one starts, how you find out how to erase. How

do you get that information?

Dr.H: I would say, "I want the core, if necessary, using the telepathic

communication ability you have to read minds," because they believe in

that kind of stuff, "so I'll use it..." I was trained in Ericsonian

stuff, "...to obtain for me the erasure code of all Omega programs. When

you've done so, I want the yes-finger to float up." Then I ask them to

tell it to me. "Are there backups for Omega programs?" "Yes." "Okay? How

many backups are there?" "Six," they say, let's say. It's different

numbers. "Is there an erasure code for all the backup programs?" "No."

"Is there an erasure code that combines all the backups into one?"

"Yes." "Obtain that code for me and when you've go it give me the yes-

signal again." It can move almost that fast in some cases where there's

not massive resistance. Question?

Q: Yes, can you tell me what you know about the risks to the therapist?

[Laughter]

Dr.H: You would have to ask.

Q: Yeah, I'd like to know that. What kind of data do you have given that

you've had contact with large numbers of people. Not just threats but also

any injury, any family problems that have arisen. That's one question. A

second one is are you aware of anybody that you've treated -- or others --

with this level of dissociation and trauma that have recovered? Integrated?

Whole and happy?

Dr.H: Okay, I have one non-bloodline multiple, complex multiple who had this

kind of programming where they have a lot of access to the patient as

neighbors and where the doctor, by the way, you'll find physicians

heavily involved. They've encouraged their own to go to medical school,

to prescribe drugs to take care of their own, to get access to medical

technology and be above suspicion. There have been a couple, in fact,

in Utah who've been nailed now. We now in Utah have two full time

ritual-abuse investigators with statewide jurisdiction under the

Attorney General's Office to do nothing but investigate this. [Applause]

Okay? In a poll done in the State of Utah in January by the major

newspaper and television station, they found that ninety percent of

Utahans believe that ritual abuse is genuine and real. Not all of them

believe it's a frequent occurrence but some of that was imparted from

two years of work by the Governor Commission on Ritual Abuse,

interviewing, talking, meeting people, gathering data. Now when people

say, by the way, "There's no evidence. They've never found a body,"

that's baloney. They found a body in Idaho of a child. They've had a

case last summer that was convicted on first-degree murder charges, two

people that the summer before that were arrested where the teenaged

girl's finger and head were in the refrigerator and they were convicted

of first-degree murder in Detroit. There have been cases and bodies.

Back to risk. I know of no therapist who's been harmed. But patients

inform us that there will come a future time where we could be at risk

of being assassinated by patients who've been programmed to kill at a

certain time anyone that they've told and any member of their own family

who's not active. If that would come about is speculative. Who knows for

sure? Maybe, but I don't think it's entirely without risk. A question

in the back?

Q: It seems to me that there seems to be some similarity between these kinds

of programming and those people who claim that they've been abducted by

spaceships and have had themselves physically probed and reprogrammed and

all of that sort of thing. Since Cape Canaveral is across the Florida

peninsula from me and I don't think that they've reported any spaceships

lately, I was just wondering is there any sort of relationship between this

and that?

Dr.H: I'll share my speculation, that comes from others really. I've not dealt

with any of those people. However, I know a therapist that I know and

trust and respect who I've informed about all this a couple of years ago

and has found it in a lot of patients and so on, who is firmly of the

belief that those people are in fact ritual-abuse victims who have been

programmed with that sort of thing to destroy all their credibility. If

somebody's coming in and reporting abduction by a flying sauce who's

going to believe them on anything else in the future? Also as a kind of

thing that can be pointed to and said, "This is as ridiculous as that."

All I know is that I recently had a consult, a telephone consult, with a

therapist where I had been instructing her about some of this kind of

stuff. When we were consulting at one point in the fifth or sixth

interview she said, "By the way, do you know anything about this topic?"

I said, "Well, not really" and shared with her what I shared with you. I

said, "If it were me being with this guy..." that she'd been seeing for

a couple of months, I said, "I would ask inside for the core to take

control of finger-signals and inquire about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta."

She proceeded to do all that, got back to me a week later and said,

"Boy, were you on target. There is a part inside named Dr. Green.

There's this kind of programming." Yes?

Q: What's the difference between this kind of program and cult-type abuse and

Satanic abuse in the kind of cults with the candles and the...

Dr.H: This type of programming will be done in the cults with the candles and

all the rest. My impression is this is simply done in people where they

have great access to them or they're bloodline and their parents are in

it and they can be raised in it from an early age. If they are bloodline

they are the chosen generation. If not, they're expendable and they are

expected to die and not get well. There will be booby traps in your way

if they aren't non-bloodline people that when they get well they will

kill themselves. I'll tell you just a little about that. My belief is

that some people that have ritual abuse and don't have this have been

ritually abused but they may be part of a non-mainstream group. The

Satanism comes in the overall philosophy overriding all of this.

People say, "What's the purpose of it?" My best guess is that the

purpose of it is that they want an army of Manchurian Candidates, ten of

thousands of mental robots who will do prostitution, do child

pornography, smuggle drugs, engage in international arms smuggling, do

snuff films, all sorts of very lucrative things and do their bidding and

eventually the megalomaniacs at the top believe they'll create a Satanic

Order that will rule the world. One last question. Then I'll give you

couple of details and we need to shift gears.

Q: You have suggested and implied that at some point at a high level of the

U.S. Government there was support of this kind of thing. I know we're short

of time, but could you just say a few words about the documentation that

may exist for that suggestion?

Dr.H: There isn't great documentation of it. It comes from victims who are

imperiled witnesses. The interesting thing is how many people have

described the same scenario and how many people that we have worked with

who have had relatives in NASA, in the CIA and in the Military,

including very high-ups in the Military. I can tell you that a friend

and colleague of mine who has probably the equivalent of half the table

space on that far side of the room filled with boxes with declassified

documents from mind-control research done in the past which has been

able to be declassified over a considerable -- couple of decades --

period and has read more government documents about mind control than

anyone else, has a brief that has literally been sent in the past week

and a half asking for all information to be declassified about the

Monarch Project for us to try to find out more. Now let me just mention

something about some of the stuff that my experience is in several

patients now that you may run into late in the process. I know I'm

throwing a lot at you in a hurry. Some of it is completely foreign and

some of you may think, "Gosh, could any of this be true?" Just, you

know, ask. Find out in your patients and you may be lucky and there

isn't any of this. Somewhere at a deep level you may run into some

things like this. Let me describe to you, if I can find my pen, the

system in one patient. One patient I had treated for quite a while, a

non-bloodline person. We had done what appeared to be successful work

and reached final integration. She came back to me early last year and

said she was symptomatic with some things. I started inquiring. I found

a part there we'd integrated. The part basically said, "There was other

stuff that I couldn't tell you about and you integrated me and so I had

to split off." I had done some inquiring about things like Alpha, Beta

as a routine part of it and found they were there and I said to this

part, "Why didn't you tell me about this stuff?" She said, "Well, we

gave you some hints but they went right over your head." Says, "I'm

sorry, but we know that you didn't know enough to help us but now we

know you can." So the stuff started coming out. It was interesting. She

described the overall system -- if I can remember it now -- as being

like this. The circle represented harm to the body, a system of alters

whose primary purpose was to hurt her including symptoms like

Munchausen's, self-mutilation, other kinds of things. Each of the

triangles represented still another different system. She said, "With

the exception of me," this one part, "you dealt with the whole circle

with the work that we did before but you didn't touch the rest of the

stuff." Okay. In the middle of all this was still another system

consisting of the Cabalistic Tree, which some of you are aware, looks

approximately like this with lines in between and so on and so forth.

There's a rough approximation. That represented another system. Then

once we got past that she implied that this entire thing was somehow

encompassed by, what do you call it, an hourglass. I kept thinking we

were at final integration then I'd find some other parts. This person

had an eagle-eye husband that was watching for certain things that we

found to be reliable indicators. So often I would get evidence of

dissociation within a few days. It would suddenly be picked up. You

know, what we found was I continued to find evidence of dissociation and

I'd find parts. Finally this part, as I got angry with him and said,

"Why when I give these ideomotor inquiries am I getting lied to?" This

part said, "Because you don't understand. You're going to get us all

killed." We started talking and then she basically said, "It's been

programmed so that if you succeed and think you've succeeded, you will

fail. They build it in as a way to laugh at you, that if you ever get us

integrated, we will die." Here's what she said, this part said, "I'm

one of twelve disciples," and I've seen this in others, twelve disciples

within this hourglass each of whom had to memorize a disciple-lesson

which were basic Satanic kind of premises, philosophies of life like "be

good to those who hurt you, hate those who are nice to you," on and on

and on. There may be two or three sentences like that associated with

each that they had to memorize them. They said, "We are like grains of

sand falling and when the last grain of sand falls, there's Death." I

said, "Is Death a part?" "Yes. When the last grain of sand falls the

Sleeping Giant awakens." The Sleeping Giant was Death, who was then to

kill them on Day-One or Day-Six after awakening unless certain things

were followed and we did some of those. Well we also found Death had a

sister as a backup, used with mirrors to create the sister part. We had

to get past and deal with that too. Death had certain things that they

said had to be done to integrate. I started to say, "Oh, come on, they

lied to you before." She said, "Wait a minute. This what they said you'd

say. They said that no doctor would ever believe that they had to go

these extremes to get us well and that's part of the reason they'd

fail." I said, "Well, tell me, tell me again." She said, "I have to be

dressed all in red. I have to have Demerol onboard, have taken Demerol.

A code has to be given and it has to be in a room that's totally dark.

It has to happen on Day-One or Day-Six after this part's been awakened."

I said what I'd have to lose? I had a psychiatrist give her a little

Demerol. We used the code. My office didn't have any windows anyway. It

was pretty easy. Oh, and there had to be four, I think, candles lit.

Well, fine. So we did it and everything went well. Maybe it would have

gone well if we hadn't done it, but I decided not to take the chance and

to trust the patient maybe. Well, so we go on and then we find another

part. There's Death And Destruction, another backup also with a sister

that we had to get through. In fact, I think there were two backups

there. Interestingly, the very last part was an extremely nice part,

made especially that way so that they wouldn't want to lose them because

they would be so adorable and so loving and so sweet that they wouldn't

want to maybe get rid of them. Then we found that she continued to have

these feelings with this last part left now of darkness and blackness

inside. What did we find? A curtain. She said, "They assumed that if you

ever got to this point, you would," and along the way, by the way, we

had encountered this stuff about the LSD stuff, the Green Bomb

programming. The message was that she said, "There is a curtain behind

which are the remaining feelings and memories, but it can't be opened

from the middle. It's like a stage curtain. It has to opened this way,"

that it can't be opened. They assumed that you would try to deal with

all the feelings. That can't be opened until you've dealt with that last

part and they've integrated. So far it looks like we've got integration

that's holding. So I found Death And Destruction and the Hourglass in

non-bloodline. "The Tree and the Hourglass," this patient informed me,

"were made of sand because we were meant to die. We're expendable. We're

the unchosen generation." I've heard variously that it's crystals or

blood that fills the Hourglass in bloodline people. By the way, you can

do real simple things like turn the Hourglass on its side so nothing can

fall out, so time stands still to be able to do certain kinds of work.

Spread the grains of sand on the seashore so that they can't be numbered

and the time will not be counted. Got that idea from a ritual-abuse

victim who had seen some of this kind of programming done that another

therapist was seeing. So those would be just a few other hints about

things that may be helpful or meaningful. We're talking about very

intensive things and at deep levels to me this give us two things. One

thing it gives to me is hope because it gets to material and it makes

progress like nothing else we've ever seen with these people who have

it. The second thing it does for me is it demoralizes me, too, because

although three years ago I had a pretty good idea about the extent and

breadth of what they had done to these victims, I had no real

appreciation for the depth and breadth and intensity of what they'd

done.

I want to come back to the other question over here now. The other

question is how many of them can get well? We don't know. In most things

in the mental health profession we accept two-thirds of the patients are

going to improve, maybe seventy percent. There's very little we can get

everybody well. I think one of the sad things we have to face is that

many of these patients will probably never be well. My personal belief

is that if they are being messed with their only hope of getting well is

if they can somehow get out of contact. Now I know patients who've gone

to other states and simply had deep-level alters pick up the phone and

call and said, "This is our new address and phone number" so that they

could be picked up locally. I mean in an inpatient unit for an extended

period of time. If they are in a Cult from their area and they are still

being monitored and messed with, my own personal opinion is we can't get

them well and can't offer more than humanitarian caring and

supportiveness. Lots of therapists do not like to hear that. That's my

opinion. I believe that if somehow they're lucky enough to be wealthy

enough to have protection, to have somehow gotten away in some way and

we can work with them without being messed with, that they have a chance

to reach some semblance of normality and livability with enough

intensive work. My own personal belief is I don't think anybody with

this kind of programming is well in this country yet. There are some who

are well along the way. I've got a couple who are well along in their

work and have done a tremendous amount, but they're clearly not well

yet.

Q: Could you speculate on the relationship between this stuff and the fantasy

games that have been proliferating, Dungeons and Dragons and that sort of

thing?

Dr.H: Well, there are a lot of things out there to cue people. You want to see

a great movie, interesting movie, to cue people? Go see "Trancers II."

You can rent it in your video shop. Came out last fall. One night in

sheer desperation for something at the video store, you know? Nine

o'clock on Friday night. Everything's gone. I rented a couple of movies

and one of them is that. Fascinating. They're talking about Green World

Order. Yes, "Trancers II." And who is the production company? Full Moon

Productions. I couldn't see much cuing in "Trancers I," but who's the

production company in "Trancers I"? Alter Productions. There are lots

of things around that are cuing. There's an interesting person in the

late sixties who talked about the Illuminati. Have any of you ever heard

of the Illuminati with regard to the Cult? Had a patient bring that up

to me just about exactly two years ago. We've now had other stuff come

out from other patients. Appears to be the name of the international

world leadership. There appear to be Illuminatic Counsels in several

parts of the world and one internationally. The name of the

international leadership of the Cult supposedly. Is this true? well, I

don't know. It's interesting we're getting some people who are trying to

work without cuing who are saying some very similar things. There was an

old guy in Hollywood in the late sixties who talked about the

infiltration of Hollywood by the Illuminati. Certainly what some

patients have said is all of this spook stuff, horror stuff, possession

and everything else that's been popularized in the last twenty years in

Hollywood is in order to soften up the public so that when a Satanic

world order takes over, everyone will have been desensitized to so many

of these things, plus to continually cue lots of people out there. Is

that true? Well, I can't definitely tell you that it is. What I can say

is I now believe that ritual-abuse programming is widespread, is

systematic, is very organized from highly esoteric information which is

published nowhere, has not been on any book or talk show, that we have

found all around this country and at least one foreign country. Let's

take a couple of quick questions and we need to get on to other

material. Yes?

Q: Do you have any techniques for decreasing your level of uncertainty that a

patient is or is not being still tampered with, "messed with," as you said?

Dr.H: Just that I would ask several of the parts I've inquired about, Core,

Diana, Wisdom, Master Programmer, several parts inside I would ask about

these sorts of things and I will keep asking it. As you do additional

work and get a bit further, I would ask again to find out. In the back?

Q: I wonder if you've heard or you know of the Martin Luther Bloodline?

Dr.H: The what?

Q: Martin Luther Bloodline?

Dr.H: I know nothing about Martin Luther Bloodline. I'll give you one other

quick tip. Ask him about an identification code. There's an

identification code that people have. It will involve their birth date.

It may involve places where they were programmed and it will usually

involve a number in there that will be their birth order, like zero-two

if they were second-born. It will usually involve a number that

represents the number of generations in the Cult, if they are

bloodlines. I've seen up to twelve now, twelve generations.

Q: I have seen a lot of the things you've been describing today in several

patients. I wanted to ask you a question about the Seven Systems. You

mentioned something about systems here. Are there Seven Systems?

Dr.H: There has been that described in some patients, yes, the Seven Systems.

Q: Could you say what that is or a little diagram?

Dr.H: I don't think we know enough to know what it is, honestly. I think it

may have to do with Seven Cabalistic Trees.

Q: Have you ever had any evidence where any of these people have been tagged

and there have been anything of their body-parts that might be related to

this, private parts in particular?

Dr.H: Well, there are certainly people that have had tattoos, that have had a

variety of other kinds of things, some of which have been, you know,

documented in cases, but I mean to say, well, maybe they did that to

themselves or had it done consciously to really prove something, not

that occurs to right off the bat. Let me just take this one last

question back and we need to go on to other material because we're never

going to get through it all. I'll just ask you to hold your question.

Q: It's not a question but I wanted to say for myself, personally, and perhaps

for others here as well, I wanted to thank you very sincerely for taking

this time to come forward. [Applause]

Dr.H: Well, [Applause]

Q: Does anyone want to join us for a standing ovation for this material? It's

wonderful. [Sustained applause]

Dr.H: A dear friend who's one of the top people in the field, who I know has

had death threats, but I know struggled for professional credibility in

believing in MPD and was harshly criticized for even believing in that

ten and fifteen years ago, and struggled to a point of professional

credibility. I think in his heart of hearts he knows it's true, but he

will say things like, "I wouldn't be surprised to find tomorrow it was

an international conspiracy and I wouldn't be surprised to find tomorrow

that it is an urban myth and rumor." He tries to stay right on the fence

and the reason is because it's controversial, because there is a

campaign underway saying these all false memories induced by, along with

incest and everything else, by "Oprah" and by books like "The Courage to

Heal" and by naive therapists using hypnosis. It's controversial. My

personal opinion has come to be if they're going to kill me, they're

going to kill me. There's going to be an awful lot of information

that's been put away that'll go to investigative reporters and multiple

investigative agencies, if it happens, and an awful lot of people like

you , I hope, that if I ever have an accident will be pushing for a very

large-scale investigation. I think we have to stand up as some kind of

moral conscience at some point and I tried to wait until we had gotten

enough verification from independent places to have some real confidence

that this was widespread. I know we've gone like a house afire to try

to pack as much as I could in for you. I hope it's given you some things

to think about and some new ideas and I appreciate being with you.

[Long sustained applause]


 

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